why did the japanese not surrender after hiroshima

But to anyone who believes the kamikaze were mindless automatons, they have only to read some of the letters they left behind. Do you realize how absurdly high that figure is? I do not consider the Weekly Standard, a relatively new and polemical organ, to be a reliable source of historical knowledge. Governments that start or end wars of aggression characteristically care little for the safety of their own people. Bix argues in explicit terms that "the war was all but over" and that the dropping of the bomb was "militarily unnecssary." In any case, I am not yet persuaded that the intercepts are as clear cut about Japanese determination to fight as you and Richardson are ready to believe. How are our troops going to be able to come home as heated battle in Iraq continues daily? The Americans said they took the drastic step to put an early end to World War II and save the lives of hundreds of thousands of US soldiers, but this official narrative is now being overturned. Go pedal your defeatist nonsense elsewhere please. Pacific War - Japanese Surrender, WWII, Allies | Britannica How can our leaders know the cost of war if they have never been there?" The great classic of Bushido - 'Hagakure' written in the early 18th century - begins with the words, 'Bushido is a way of dying'. Keiko said the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and another at Nagasaki three days later, which killed 70,000 more, were war crimes. I want them to come to Hiroshima and Nagasaki," she said. The Bush administration steamrolled any military leader who posed questions about the planning phase to the run up of the Iraq War. The declaration was made at the Potsdam Conference near the end of World War II. And during the entire month of June and well into July, when U.S. terror bombing of Japanese civilian targets peaked, he resisted and showed no determination to do so. It inflicted a serious body blow, but it was hardly a knock-out punch." Tsuyoshi Hasegawa Could it really be possible that, all these decades later, after so many countless books, films, textbooks and TV documentaries, we've got the final days of World War Two all wrong? Dear Mr. Clark, Mr. Bix's article appears to rely heavily on his paper "Japan's Delayed Surrender: A Reinterpretation" in Diplomatic History, Vol. Answer (1 of 22): Firstly, Japan was till then an independent entity throughout the history ruled by a single strain of royalty. Japan Surrenders; World War II Ends - HISTORY But by this time Japan had virtually no oil, its cities were in ruins and its navy and naval air capability virtually non-existent. Read the translation instead of depending on Cole (who since corrected his mistake). Google his speech. "insurgency strength is estimated at 200,000." The 23-year-old Ichizo Hayashi, wrote this to his mother, just a few days before embarking on what he knew would be his final mission, in April 1945: I am pleased to have the honour of having been chosen as a member of a Special Attack Force that is on its way into battle, but I cannot help crying when I think of you, Mum. I suspect the doves who chant the "chickenhawk" mantra -- implying that the only people who are fit to make war decisions are military personnel -- would be very horrified indeed if that were codified in law, judging by the very generally hawkish and right-leaning attitudes expressed by the great majority of servicepeople, both currently serving and retired. ago. when I say "partial exception", I mean to Mr. Ebbitt's post, not to my point about disagreeing with PCism. I can't speak for the Weekly Standard, but I'd say it's worth noting that the article by Frank is linked by the Chronicle of Higher Education in their column on things to read from the wider press. The shock and awe of the initial front has failed to break the will of the Iraqi people. Lieutenant Onoda, aged 78 So we come to the question of ideology, or the national polity and essence, which they called kokutai. Mr. Clarke, Hiroshima atomic bombing did not lead to Japanese surrender, historians argue nearing 70th anniversary. If we are to win this war it will take additional boots on the ground. Protests to the U.S. On August 10, 1945, the day after the atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, the Japanese government, through the neutral country of Switzerland, made a stern protest to the U.S., saying, "The use of this atomic bomb is a new crime against mankind.". Background Allied landings in the Pacific Theatre of operations, August 1942 to August 1945 By 1945, the Japanese had suffered a string of defeats for nearly two years in the South West Pacific, India, the Marianas campaign, and the Philippines campaign. Nearly three million Japanese were dead, many more wounded or seriously ill, and the country lay in ruins. He says, for example, that fear of surrendering to Russia was the primary factor behind Japans decision to surrender to the US -- more important even than the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki but he offers no substantiation for this unusual claim. The Japanese Surrender in World War II. 3.) The Japanese Surrender in 1945 is Still Poorly Understood At least according to Frank, who is a WWII historian, the Magic intercepts do indeed tell us that Truman and his advisors had good reason to believe that Japan had both the will and the means to continue fighting prior to the use of the bomb. Please provide the solid numbers of the Iraq security forces you write of. What I and others have argued is that the Magic intercepts on which it is based serve as important evidence of what Truman and his advisors knew, or at least believed, about Japan's intentions. Japan did not surrender until a week after the Nagasaki bombing. And, by the way, congratulations on your pointless dig at Mr. Ryan for his typo on Bix's name. That would be right here: The Comparison of Napoleon's Russian campaign is only to open the discussion as to why the US is not changing our tactics to combat the insurgents more effectively. Two months after Germany surrendered, Allied leaders gathered in Potsdam, Germany, to discuss peace settlements . What they had really feared was the destruction of their entire framework for rule. Even today, the word 'kamikaze' evokes among Japan's former enemies visions of crazed, mindless destruction. I really think it's up to you to cite chapter and verse of Magic, and put it into an overal context, if you think it disproves this position of Bix (a position which is not quite as you described it initially). his position that most of Japanese big shots were not eager to throw in the towel prior to Hiroshima. .Japanese fighting men did not surrender, even in the face of insuperable odds. Less than 80 years previously, it had been forced out of two-and-a-half centuries of self-imposed seclusion from the rest of the world, when the Tokugawa Shogunate was overthrown, and Japan embarked on rapid modernisation under Emperor Meiji. No, not at all - the loss of these lives is regrettable. Many historians say the bombings did not lead to the Japanese surrender, and the Soviet declaration of war on Japan two days later was a bigger shock. The US is constructing massive, permanent bases in Iraq. Lieutenant Onoda doggedly refused to lay down his arms Two years earlier, another Japanese soldier, Corporal Shoichi Yokoi, had been found fishing in the Talofofo River on Guam. Let's be fair here - many publications - including the good gray Times have not always done a fine job of upholding scholarship. They did not surrender after the first atomic bomb due to the amount of time it usually would take to officially declare surrender, which in this case would have been a bit longer considering japan was not so keen on surrender. Ultimately, what mattered most was where each of them, and the institutions they represented, stood as a result of an unconditional surrender. Yet, even though nearly 5,000 of them blazed their way into the world's collective memory in such spectacular fashion, it is sobering to realise that the number of British airmen who gave their lives in World War Two was ten times greater. But, as long as we are now on your irrelevant tangent to my original post, I would like to point out that I am not very fond of "neo-con". http://hnn.us/readcomment.php?id=66141#66141: Please check the actual numbers given by the Iraqi Intelligence Chief before repeating Prof. Cole's ridiculous number. The former with great distinction. But as shockwaves of the Great Depression reached Japanese shores at the end of the 1920s, democracy proved to have extremely shallow roots indeed. The decision to use the atomic bomb | WWII, Hiroshima & Nagasaki Die, and leave no ignominious crime behind you. This survey had surprising results, Japan emperor's WWII surrender speech audio master released, Thailand's Move Forward party moves to curb Senate power after old guard blocks party's PM candidate. The term "chickenhawk" contains no general implication whatsosever concerning which sort of people "are fit to make war decisions". The surrender of the Japanese was held in Tokyo Bay aboard the battleship USS Missouri. There was little left to be destroyed: the crisis abroad and at home had merged. I pity you and your ideoligcal straightjacket. In early 1941, General Robert Brooke-Popham, Commander-in-Chief of British forces in the Far East, reported that one of his battalion commanders had lamented, 'Don't you think (our men) are worthy of some better enemy than the Japanese?'. "To Bear the Unbearable": Japan's Surrender, Part I The debate in academic circles now is how much other factors came into play in America becoming the first and still the only nation to drop the atomic bomb in warfare. The Iraqi Police/Army is in disarray and littered with insurgent spies who relay every movement to the resistance. Kirkuk and Mosel are off limits to US troops. Since Mr. Frank does not work for the Weekly Standard any more than Mr. Bix works for HNN, your peremptory dismissal of his argument on the basis of its association is either lazy or mindless. America's atomic attacks on Japan started a nuclear arms race which bought the world to the brink of destruction. I also find it odd that the administration was successful in it's attacks on John Kerry (whom I did not vote for) who actually served in combat. The US is STILL "in" Baghdad and the Iraqi Police/Army is making steady progress with NO shortage of recruits. Articles on this website tend not to cite sources, however. As Napoleon marched through Russia decisively winning battles he failed to comprehend the Russian mindset until Moscow was ablaze and he was buried under a cold blanket of snow. The issue is perspective and as a student of military history you should know that US combat deaths in Iraq are still less than the casualties on D-Day or 9/11 for that matter. WOW! Japan barely scratched US soil during WWII. Returning prisoners from Japan's previous major war with Russia in 1904-5 had been treated as social outcasts. Mr. Bix, author of Hirohito and the Making of Modern Japan (HarperCollins, 2000), writes on problems of war and empire and is a Japan Focus associate. They did surrender conditionally. As expected, the intercept messages (most of which were made public three decades ago) are an ambiguous jumble, but on balance tend to support Franks argument, though not to the extent hyped by him. We acknowledge Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Australians and Traditional Custodians of the lands where we live, learn, and work. Bix must address that conflict or he is being imperfectly frank with his audience. "The troops will likely start heading home in the spring." What in some cases inspired - and in others, coerced - Japanese men in the prime of their youth to act in such a way was a complex mixture of the times they lived in, Japan's ancient warrior tradition, societal pressure, economic necessity, and sheer desperation. for the future;" and"work with resolution so as ye may enhance the innate glory of the Imperial State." Read more. Letters and diaries written by student conscripts before they were killed in action speak of harsh beatings, and of soldiers being kicked senseless for the most trivial of matters - such as serving their superior's rice too slowly, or using a vest as a towel. On this date 74 years ago, the US dropped the first of two atomic bombs on the Japanese city of Hiroshima, killing more than 70,000 people instantly. -30-, Mr. Clarke- They were indoctrinated from an early age to revere the Emperor as a living deity, and to see war as an act that could purify the self, the nation, and ultimately the whole world. I approached this article with real enthusiasm, hoping I would learn something new about one of the most interesting and important questions of recent history. "Car Brain" Has Long Normalized Carnage on the Roads, Hawley's Use of Fake Patrick Henry Quote a Revealing Error, Nelson Lichtenstein on a Half Century of Labor History, New Research Shows British Industrialization Drew Ironworking Methods from Colonized and Enslaved Jamaicans, The American Revolution Remains a Hotly Contested Symbolic Field, Untangling Fact and Fiction in the Story of a Nazi-Era Brothel, New College Visiting Prof. Out of JobRufo's Public Remarks Suggest Politics the Motive, Recovering the Story of the Empress Messalina After a Roman Cancellation. How can our leaders know the cost of war if they have never been there? 2. 1.) No two wars are the same so comparisons are of little value. the strategy behind the kamikaze was born purely out of desperation. Of the 100 units planned by Don Rumsfield only 3 are fully operational to date. Truman and Byrnes introduced nuclear weapons into modern warfare when it had been militarily unnecessary to do so. Granted both Kennedy and Nixon served. On the eve of 70th anniversary, the children of Hiroshima sing for a future free of nuclear weapons, but today more countries than ever have the bomb. Against overwhelming US firepower they would not stand a chance on a conventional battlefield. Frank does not, for example, address the relative role of Soviet entry in prompting Japans surrender, and he says nothing about the fire-bombing which preceeded Hiroshima. Although I use the term chicken-hawk to describe the gutless wonders within the administration I am by no means a dove. As the companies of far located European countries had already monopolized . I disagree with him on many points but we have made a mess of Iraq and to date I surely would not say we are winning this war. It was a war without mercy, and the US Office of War Information acknowledged as much in 1945. Al Queda, or whatever the West calls them, is not, nor have they ever been intent on bringing the war to US soil. This was intended for various reasons. Even decisions made in the name of peace are somehow corrupt because those who make them are not perfectly selfless beings. Even assuming your interpretation of the decoded Japanese messages is correct, I cannot locate the supposed "conflict" between this and Bix's article. As a student of military history I can site numerous errors in US war planning that has put our troops in this position. Yet not everybody was to lay down their arms. Intentions are a very slippery thing to nail down: intercepted internal communications are a better source for addressing more factual questions (i.e. So, Professor Cole showed his normal contempt for the US military and happily depended on a Western wire service messed-up translation of "al-Sharq" Arabic text. Potsdam Declaration, ultimatum issued by the United States, Great Britain, and China on July 26, 1945, calling for the unconditional surrender of Japan. It noted that the unwillingness of Allied troops to take prisoners in the Pacific theatre had made it difficult for Japanese soldiers to surrender. Soviets declare war on Japan; invade Manchuria - HISTORY 4. 609 - 614. That was a deliberate decision, indeed, and it's where the moral argument should rightly focus., The key missing link for this thread is presented and discussed below Bringing troops home as part of standard rotation and shipping them back out is NOT HOME IN THE SPRING! The problem of historical consciousness that today clouds Japan's relations with Asian neighbors began with the emperor's surrender rescript. Hirohito (1901-1989) was emperor of Japan from 1926 until his death in 1989. We witnessed civilian bungling in Vietnam as our military leaders had their hands tied. With reference to the long, circuitous prior thread that started here, These people had many reasons to bring the lost war to an end short of Japan's further destruction and unconditional capitulation to the Anglo-Americans. But"kokutai clarification campaigns" intimidated people and instilled a sense of crisis such that no one dared to publicly question the emperor's rescripts on national affairs: they were sacred and inviolable just as he was. At this point in time the US commitment in Iraq is a small fraction of the resources used to fight WWII, which was my point. The article itself is generally quite excellent, by the way, and most of other comments about here rife with many other instances of confusion and misattribution. www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/894mnyyl.asp. It is unclear at what point Hirohito abandoned the illusion that his armed forces remained capable of delivering at least one devastating blow to the enemy so that his diplomats could negotiate a surrender on face saving terms. I will nonetheless consider it as a possibility, but am not going to take the undocumented opinions of a few HNN posters as a definitive conclusion without some better substantiation, nor will I do their homework for them in trying to evaluate their questionable case. Yo http://hnn.us/readcomment.php?id=66202#66202. The Bushites,"neoconservatives," and Pentagon generals who urge Americans to continue their illegal war and occupation of Iraq until"we win," are looking out for their own political interests and preparing for the political struggle that lies ahead. Even today, Hiroo Onoda insists they believed the missions were enemy tricks designed to lower their guard. Find out more about how the BBC is covering the. Your cavalier attitude is similar to those of the cowardly chicken-hawks in the Bush administration who fail to take a realistic view of events on the ground and adapt accordingly. Of course, if the "Magic" decrypts really seriously contradict Bix, then he should have acknowledged that, even in a short article, but this is not clear to me. Through much of World War II, Allied bombers would sometimes drop leaflets warning of impending bombing of a city. General MacArthur would not allow him to be questioned. Although this idea certainly appealed to the ideologues, what probably motivated Japanese soldiers at the more basic level were more mundane pressures. From figures of derision, they were turned into supermen - an image that was to endure and harden as the intensity and savagery of fighting increased. He claims for example, that Vietnam and the current war in Iraq were wars of aggression on par with Japans imperial expansion in the years leading up to WWII. 8.) 2.) On August 8, Japan's . I come from a military family and although I did not serve after high school in 1978, as I chose college, I currently serve the DAV and have spent many weekend afternoons at VA Hospitals. This has had disastrous consequences. Why Did Japan Really Surrender in WW2? You may continue to be as irrelevant as you wish, and misquote me to your heart's delight. Hirohito said something similar in 1946 in the"Monologue" that he dictated to his palace entourage. What a disappointment. It was 8:16 a.m. on a Monday, the start of another workday in . The New York Times is always accurate, right? Washington has believed ever since that the atomic bomb decisively forced Japan's surrender. Japan did not surrender until a week after the Nagasaki bombing. Why Did Japan Really Surrender in WW2? - Sky HISTORY "Go pedal your defeatist nonsense elsewhere please." He had simply been too frightened to give himself up. No wonder Iraq smells like Vietnam revisited. I have had forum discussions with Mr. Heisler on a few occasions but would never call him a defeatist. Warning Leaflets. So quite some time back I remember hearing a theory about how he Japanese did not surrender to the United States because of the nuclear bombs but instead because Russia threatened to invade. Thanks for the reference, Mr. Mutschler (no online link I suppose ? Bix, not "Blix" is the author you quote. They are surely not conclusive -- no single piece of evidence could be on such a topic -- and they may well contain ambiguous or even contradictory evidence within them. Your comparison of this figure to the US troop count. What did Japan do after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? If he did not act immediately with the Russians bearing down on Japan and the national capacity for protracted resistance nearly exhausted, the monarchy, which he equated with the state, would be destroyed. 5. "Some people in the world still do not understand the cruelty of nuclear weapons, and that they are absolute evil. "Also, morally it was wrong. Where does Bix say he thinks the Japanese authorities were "ready to surrender before Truman approved the use of the A-Bombs" ? On that final point, see for example HNNs reprint of David Kennedys Time column (here http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/13429.html): By failing to offer such nuance, and by inserting needless asides about American foreign policy throughout his article, Bix ends up telling us much more about his own ideology than about the ostensible subject of his article. A truthful, public post-mortem on both Hirohito's"green light" for war in 1941 and his true role in the surrender process was never conducted. In fact, two days after the Council agreed to surrender, a Japanese submarine attacked the Oak Hill, an American landing ship, and the Thomas F. Nickel, an American destroyer, both east of Okinawa.
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